obama has said that he wants a balanced approach. where are the cuts? >> grover norquist, president of americans for tax reform, author of the no-tax-hike pledge, but some people ar -- wants everybody to hold the line, but some people are weakening. i things starting to soften up there? >> tom cole, republican from oklahoma, a very astute politician, was it very honestly and openly a politician before he got elected to congress, and said that we ought to take the deal and cut taxes on 98% of people, basically rid ourselves of the fact that most people other than charles c., that the republicans have become the party of billionaires' and millionaires in this debate. that is what happened in the election of 2012. that really is a continuing problem for republicans. that is what you are seeing to it is not just anti-grover norquist movement. it is a realization that they have a political problem. >> a lot of positive signs for a deal. one is that grover norquist, who is kind of a ridiculous figure, it has been exposed as that and people are walking away. b